"For your freedom and ours!" Poles go on and on about how they love freedom, freedom for everyone, and how they have fought for freedom all over the earth. And yet in today's Poland, too many Poles want to oppress people for no other reason than their sexual orientation.
See article here "LGBT activists in Poland on trial for desecrating images of Mary with rainbow symbols"
The protesters in Poland are ant-Christian. They attack churches, clergy, elderly believers. Their slogan is 'Abortion is O.K.' Abortion is not O.K. in real life and in many ethical systems. Abortion is O.K. for irresponsible machos, who misuse women and later finance abortions, which is much cheaper than children are. Father Ludwik Wisniewski, a liberal priest, has recently derscribed his experiences as a confessor https://www.rp.pl/Plus-Minus/301159997-Ludwik-Wisniewski-OP-Aborcja-jest-aktem-haniebnym.html He describes abortion as a disgrace, disgrace of the society, not of a desperate woman. Langauge of the protesters includes morly 4-letter words. An anticommunist leader Jacek Kuron said - Let's not burn Party Comittees, let's organise our ones. The opposition in Poland is unable to create, so they attack Polish tradition and Catholic symbols.ReplyDelete
Your post is not an accurate description of gay people. Plenty of gay people oppose abortion. Please don't post defamatory material against a vulnerable minority group here. Thank you.Delete
I do not write about gay people. I write about protesters in Poland, who mainly demand unlimited abortion and anti-Catholic laws. Some of the protesters declare to be LGBT activists, but many LGBT people do not support the mentuioned professional activists.Delete
A Youtuber, Jakubowski76, even said in a video: I was talking to my lesbian friend, XY, and she agree with me that these activist idiots are destroying everything we had been working for throughout the last years. Spot on.Delete
Most homo/trans Polish people do not go to protests. They want to live their life and, perhaps unknowingly, are doing a great thing, namely: Show the rest of society that they are boring and normal. A great way to pave the way for civic unions, imho. These activists are destroyers and hurt homo/trans people, on purpose, in order to achieve other objectives as well.
St. Mary of Czestochowa is an Orthodox ikon, so any rewriting is not only anti-Catholic but also anti-Orthodox. "icons have always been understood as a visible gospel, as a testimony to the great things given man by God the incarnate Logos" http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/scouteris_icons.htmlReplyDelete
No, you are wrong. Showing Christian love to gay people is not anti Catholic.Delete
I have written, that some Orthodox people do not accept any rewriting of Ikons. The Czestochowa ikon is Orthodox. I assure you that many Polish activists, eg. Marta Lempart, do not want to be loved and especilaly not in a Christian way. There are hundreds texts and videos documenting her opinions.Delete
Lempart, daughter of a Jewish communist officer who was "working" as a censor, seems, at least to me, to be a very unhappy human being. I am no saying this to mock her, I truely pity her. I hope God will show up in her life and that she will find a nice lady as a partner (she is lesbian).Delete
Ahm, can I show them Christian love without some lgbt activist desecrating Christian icons for political gains? That should be possible, I think.
Who are "Th eLeast of These" in Poland? Former workers of State farms (PGR) and their children. The farms were dissolved around 1990, the villages lost basic infrastructure financed by the farms. Warsaw activists are not poor, they collect money in the net, they do not work. An actiivist has worked one day in a café, but she didn't like cleaning toilets so she left. Another activist sald he eats vegan pizza offered by someone. Last Friday I met a poor ill woman, she asked for 1.5USD for food, she had been robbed. She does not obtain vegan pizza.ReplyDelete
God's love is not a zero sum game. God's love is for farmers and for gay people alike. Extending God's love to gay people will not harm farmers.Delete
Sad but true.ReplyDelete
Another issue is Polish laws on offending religious sentiments, which in my view should be abolished altogether.
Piotr, funny story: In Germany, these laws have been abolished. the effect? The only religion safe from ridicule and desecration is Islam. Because people are literaly afraid to die. I've talked to German "free-thinkers" (actually, just a bunch of cynical haters of Christianity) who were doing an anti-religious (anti-christian) exposition on the street. I asked them, if they have something on Islam. They became red as a beetroot, started to stammer s.th about Christiantiy being the majority religion bla bla. I just told them: No, you are just cowards. They were not able to respond to that.Delete
If there was no islamic religion, I would agree with you 100%.
Hello Dr Goska,ReplyDelete
I would like to share some of my thoughts on this subject.
We do have gays, but we don't have gay communities here. Gays were never persecuted in any free Polish state so they are not organised. No underground gay bars in Poland, sorry. It's not America.
Western support for gays is a result of guilty conscience. Poles don't share that sense of guilt. We are not Americans.
Those LGBT "activists" get paid. It's a job. Most of them are not even gays. Just like in the past most of commie "activists" were not workers.
LGBT ideology is imported from abroad and it has no place in my country. That "rainbow icon" is offensive to religious feelings of many Native Poles. Personally, I see that as a symbol of foreign culture forcing itself on my own.
Most of us have "live and let live" attitude. We also believe that one should "love the sinner, hate the sin".
Gays are sinners. We don't persecute them, but they are not allowed to indoctrinate little children in schools.
They have all the rights but no privileges.
They are tolerated but not endorsed.
People in the West got all those things mixed up. There is a difference between the former and the latter.
For us the term "minority" applies to people who's culture, language, religion or ethnic origin is different that of majority of Poland's population. Sexual preferences don't qualify as minority trait.
In the past foreign powers were using Poland's religious and ethnic minorities as an excuse to meddle in country's internal affairs. It wasn't good for neither Poland nor it's minorities. It would be bad for gays in Poland to become hostages of some interlopers.
It's hard to respect the Westerners when they are fighting for "LGBT rights" in Poland but not in Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia. No pride parades there. No waiving of rainbow flags in those countries.
"sorry. It's not America."Delete
No one on this blog has ever said that Poland is America. Strawman argument.
Gay people have been pelted with stones and otherwise mistreated in Poland. Now Poles are on trial for showing compassion to gay people.
These are the facts on the ground.
I have every right to call myself a Polonian as any other Polonian.
As a Polonian, I condemn Polish homophobia and I stand with the persecuted, which is where Christians are commanded by their savior to stand. See: The Good Samaritan and the discussion of "Who is my neighbor?"
"In the past foreign powers were using Poland's religious and ethnic minorities as an excuse to meddle in country's internal affairs. It wasn't good for neither Poland nor it's minorities. It would be bad for gays in Poland to become hostages of some interlopers.Delete
It's hard to respect the Westerners when they are fighting for "LGBT rights" in Poland but not in Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia. No pride parades there. No waiving of rainbow flags in those countries."
This is offensive.
I am no "foreign power" and I've spoken out against jihad and gender apartheid more than anyone else reading or posting here, I think.
Google my name and jihad and get back to me when you, Lukasz, publish something criticizing jihad or gender apartheid.
There is no excuse for persecuting gay people just because they are gay. Your attempt to make excuses ... I can only shake my head.
Lukasz, I am gay. I am gay in the same sense that I am a Jew and I am an Untouchable and I am a Samaritan.
that's what all Christians should say and act on.
Dear Dr Goska,Delete
When I wrote my comment I wasn't thinking about You, Dr Goska.
My criticism goes to foreign diplomats, companies and media. I don't consider You to be foreign or hostile.
You used the term "gay people". I disagree. There are Polish people here. Some of us are gays. I don't exclude them from national community. Or anyone else. Unless they exclude themselves.
You wrote that those "gay people" were "pelted with stones"... well, those were the activists I wrote about. Mostly not gay.
They came into conflict with locals that could have been easily avoided. All that those activists had to do was not coming to that city.
To parafraze: "locals didn't land on LGBT, it's LGBT that landed on locals".
Activist knew what to expect, and they got what they wanted.
Dear Dr Goska, I think that we see different things. Not differently. Different.
You see persecuted minority and You stand in it's defense. I can understand that. You stand for the underdog.
What I see is a small group of nutjobs and sellouts. With financial support from foreign companies. Political support from foreign diplomacy. And a friendly atmosphere in the foreign media.
I see a small country that tries to protect it's identity.
I too stand for the underdog.
Like I stated before, there is no persecution of gays in Poland. Simply there is no affirmation. Just because they don't get privileges it doesn't mean they are deprived of rights.
I only hope that in the future Poland's gays won't say: "Things were better for us before those LGBT activists started to defend us".
Sorry, Danusha, Lukasz is spot-on here. Even some left-wing sociologues, I think it was even Maciej Gdula, said that Poles posess a "conservative tolerance". Meaning, as long as you do your job, are a good neighbour and do not break the law you are welcome. We don't care about your bedroom, we are not peeping toms. Live and let live.Delete
As to: Western support for gays is a result of guilty conscience.
Indeed. Enslave black people="we must fight racism, even on Mars"
Treat women like semi-slaves="let's burn our bras and hate men"
Treat gay/trans people like crap="actually, they are way better than heterosexuals,they should get everything their self-proclaimed spokespeople want".
Oh my, just treat everyone like an adult with equal (not more) rights. How hard is that?
You have written: There is no excuse for persecuting gay people just because they are gay.
Not happening in Poland. But, if you attack s.o, insult the police, destroy property you will be persecuted by the state, gay or not ;-). As Polish citizens, they have the same rights as everyone else.
Lukasz, you have written everything I was thinking so comprehensively, it is hard to add anything new.
I would like to repeat one key point:
"What I see is a small group of nutjobs and sellouts. With financial support from foreign companies. Political support from foreign diplomacy. And a friendly atmosphere in the foreign media.I see a small country that tries to protect it's identity."
A strong national identity is a pet peeve of globalistically inclined people dreaming about a borderless world and a global government.
They (left-leaning people) are attacking Poland (Hungary) with such relentless energy because they are afraid imho. They are afraid, that the unhappy people of their own countries might come to the realization, that there is i.e a French culture that is based on Christianity, that consumption is not everything, that oversexualization is a bad thing, that family is a great thing, that there are just 2 genders etc and all of this is totally compatible with having a wealthy country.
They might see through the brutal lies they are being fed by "cosmopolitan" "elites" who, on one hand, will preach, that i.e casual sex is fine and who needs a family anyway...while they themselves choose marriage for themselves. Who will thell you that multiculturalism is great-while living in gated white/European communities. Who say that learning tolerance in school is more important than skills-and than send their own kids to elite private schools. How preach that airplane fares are way to low and should be super expensive to save mother nature...but for them, 3 trips by airplane per year are fine.
An anti-progressive agenda must thus not be allowed to succede.
Which is very anti-freedom. I think each country should choose it's own agenda. Than, let's see what works out best and introduce it into our own legislation-if the populations wills so.
The solution is simple: Let these people live as they want, leave the rest of us alone, and stop being offensive and provocative, which is what they do when they profane religious symbols in order to get attention.ReplyDelete
Acknowledging God's love for all of his children is not a profanation, it is a declaration of the central truth of the Gospel. John 3:16.Delete
Making Mary out to be gay has nothing to do with affirming God's love for His children. They are two different things entirely.ReplyDelete
You don't understand at all.Delete
And how do you know that Mary wasn't gay, in any case?Delete
The image is not about making Mary out to be gay. Although, again, you don't know that she was not.Delete
The image insists that God loves homosexuals just as much as God loves heterosexuals, and that homosexuals have a place in Poland just as heterosexuals do.
As do intersex people. Casimir Pulaski was probably intersex.
As do Jews.
Polish left demands total division of religion and state, like in France, so your American language does not describe correctly atheistic Europe. Either we discuss Roman Catholic religion, which does not accept gay priests, or we discuss law.Delete
Portraying Mary in this way, and then asserting that "it proves God's love for gay people" does not make it so.ReplyDelete
That you and others freak out at this image speaks volumes. This image forces homophobes to confront their own irrational hatred of gay people.Delete
If someone made an image of Mary as a handicapped person, you'd be okay with that. We must love the handicapped!
If someone made an image of Mary as a poor person, that would be okay, too. We must love the poor!
Those who regard homosexuals as subhuman freak out when they see this image. Homophobes do not believe in God's love. They want God to hate homosexuals.
It's very sad. And I will not debate this further with you.
@"that homosexuals have a place in Poland just as heterosexuals do.Delete
As do intersex people. Casimir Pulaski was probably intersex.
As do Jews."
Interestingly, intersex people are, for the utmost part, very much agreeable people living their lives without racking anyones nerves with "my gender identity" (although these people have legitimate issues with their's).
Everyone can find his/her place in Poland. If he/she wants to assimilate into Polish culture,customs and tradition, that is. Like Izu Ugunoh, for example.
Piotr. "Current problems are whipped up by politicians and clergymen, who want to use gay people as tools to mobilize their supporters and keep political power."Delete
Ehm, no. Current problems have been whipped up by the opposition and foreign politicians, who would, if possible, even try to instrumentalize black people in order to harm the current goverment which they despise for not governing Poland as a compliant client state.
Look, what perks did homo/trans people get while the Civic Platform was ruling Poland as a virtual backwater of Germany? None. And no protests.Please think about that for a while when you have a free minute to spare, ok?
BTW, the inhabitants of colonies were always "compared to Russia" or rather, to i.e apes, in order to weaken their sense of self-worth.
Decadent Western European countries (like France, who is not able to protect a girl who insulted Islam
can compare Poland to North Korea, for all I care.
It is sad, that some Poles have an inferiority complex with regards to "progressive" views from foreign countries.
And, again, to the main point of this post. Either "For your freedom and ours" means something or it doesn't. It sad to confront Poles today who have rejected this motto, and believe only, "For our freedom. Period, end of story."ReplyDelete
That's not the Poland that inspired me as a girl. That's not the Poland for which I have sacrificed. That is a cruel, narrow, selfish Poland.
I'm glad it's not all of Poland. There are people in Poland who live up to the Polish idea of human rights and freedom. I stand with them.
I think two things are also worth pointing out. Polish Catholic church is in probably the greatest crisis in its history. Poles - especially young ones - are becoming less and less Catholic.ReplyDelete
Second - it is true that Poles did not have a massive problem with homophobia before. Current problems are whipped up by politicians and clergymen, who want to use gay people as tools to mobilize their supporters and keep political power. The anti-gay sentiment has been artificially created, but now it is a real problem that translates into some gay people emmigrating, gay teenagers comitting suicide and Poland being compared to Russia. It is sad that some Poles feel comfortable in the same cultural space as Mr Putin.
I can't endorse a statement like "Poland did not have a massive problem with homophobia" without some citation to some study that makes that point. But thank you for the other insights.Delete
Professor Zerko is a very serious and well informed persons in Poland. He criticizes both the government and the opposition. https://twitter.com/StZerko/status/1352592259854852098 He describes Podlesna's interview in a way, I am unable to translate into English - pwerhaps 'extremely dumb'.ReplyDelete
Piotr presents his personal opinion 'whipped up by ... clergymman'. Polish clergy has an influential gay lobby, some bishops opressed thelogy students in seminsriums, especially Paetz. More than 50% of sexual excess of RC priests are homosexual, many of them include molesting of students, above paedophilia limit. Two seminars were destroied by gay supervisors, in Sosnowiec and Kalisz. The whole LGBT story was instigated by Warsaw LGBT card and deputy mayor's scheme.ReplyDelete
"There are people in Poland who live up to the Polish idea of human rights and freedom." So I am against freedom? I have distributed illegal printings during the 7 years of martiual law and Communist extremal oppression. I describe here hoaxters, who use sex, religion, human rights, to earn money, to get better jobs. Communists represented workers, murdering or imprisoning them. Now leftist activists represent minorities. Activists Biedroin and Spurek are members of European Parlament, where they earn more than President of POland. Margot obtains money, food, sex. Many doctors study 'fascism', ''homophobia', 'antisemitism' in Poland. There is a classical story about a young sheperd who shouted 'Wolves, wolves' to check his collegues. WHen the real wolves came, noone believed him. Hate speach of the Polish left presented by GAzetya Wuborcza, Newsweek Poland, OKO Press, TVN, Krytyka Poltyczna, make any rational critics of nationalism inpossible. Germany has a real problem with Nazis and AfD, but the world is afraid of Kaczynski.ReplyDelete
@ Now leftist activists represent minorities.Delete
The same with the SPD in Germany (Social Democrats). They have forgotten, that they were founded as a "worker's party". Granted, many people work i.e in offices, but still, they are dependend on their monthly pay thus, they are workers. But who cares about that, if you can hang a rainbow flag in front of the major's office and terminate a friendship agreement with a Polish sister city? Worker's of the world, unite for....lgbt, migrants, green energy.....?
We already had a long talk about this somewhere else, but I would still want to repeat one important point I have gotten out of it:ReplyDelete
In the US, the rainbow flag just means homo/trans people.
In Europe, it is closely tight to a far-left agenda also entailing: unlimited migration (mostly of Muslims/Africans, who do not like homo/trans people very much. The irony), a huge welfare-state (which I love to feed with my taxes), leftist ideas in general (like UBI).
In my eyes, the picture above is, thus, symbolic occupation and symbolic violence. BTW, if I could I would sign civil unions into existance today. I am also for co-parenting agreements (2 men and 2 women getting together to create a family with a biological mom, one biological dad, one uncle and an aunt). I am friendly inclined towards trans people. Would not have a problem to give them 3 kisses on the cheeks to greet them or go to the sauna with them (just to sweat together, of course).
Also, i will defend Christian customs,symbols culture and tradition from agressive nihilism. Within a Christian culture, there is room for non-heterosexual people. Not necessarily the way some lgbt activists envision it (after long thought, I am coming out against gay adoptions and strongly favour co-parenting agreements) but I think we should have a civilized talk about it in Polish society.
It is a Jesuit review? Oh my, liberation theology and Vaticanum II has taken a toll on the Church, it seems.If only they had introduced married priests and the priesthood of women I'd be very much content (aka "worth it"). The effects being people exchanging Catholicism for more radical denominations like Evangelical Christianity.
Now, is it ok to punish s.o for insulting religious beliefs? Hmm, thats a tricky one. As a classical liberal, I would say: No. The problem is that, right now, in Western Europe every religion can be insulted but one-Islam. Because that will get you murdered (see the case of Samuel Patty). Christianity is spat upon and ridiculed in Germany, but make a joke about Islam (like the bisexual comedian Kay Ray) and, at the very least, loose your job. Like I said, without Islam, I would be a 100% against basphemy laws. With Islam, it becomes a mess.