Tuesday, April 11, 2023

Israeli Student Holocaust Trips to Poland: Controversial New Agreement

You can read the full article at Haaretz here . The screencaps below are out of order and I don't have time to fix them. Thanks to Jerzy for sending this in. 


  1. Its is more of the same that has existed since time immemorial: Too many Jews try to find something to blame on Poland, especially with regards to the German-made Holocaust.

  2. An another article by Haaretz, https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1645774336782123010?t=_u7EsKcuRuWXBUJIYlgX9g&s=19

  3. Twitter is flooded with critics of the Polish-Israeli agreement. There are several partially original texts linked by tens or perhaps alredy hundreds local media and individuals. The agreement is used by Israeli politicians including the infamous Yair Lapid, who accused in 2018 the Poles to participate in killing of his grandmother https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-01-27/ty-article/my-grandma-was-murdered-in-poland-i-dont-need-holocaust-education/0000017f-e0c2-d804-ad7f-f1fa9ba50000 His both grandmothers have survived, his great-grandmother was murdered in Auschwitz by Germans.

  4. thanks Jerzy. I note this: “Every young person in Israel is used to asking himself what would have happened if he had been a Jew in the Holocaust, but what if he would also ask himself what would have happened if he had been a Pole or a German during the Holocaust – whether he would have resisted and paid the price or would have continued on with life as usual. That’s no less important or relevant a dilemma.”

    "What would have happened had he been a Pole or a German during the Holocaust..." There are no worries or questions about what people of the countries who actually were in the Axis with Germany would do - presumably as they had nothing at all to do with it - in the Current Version - it is not even a question.

    And Poland comes first, not Germany. How long before Germany slips off the end, and turns up on the Allied Side I wonder?

    So, to take a positive, and it is a real one, can this make us think very very seriously about the Biblical warning that all the kingdoms of the world are lying in the power of "the wicked one", Satan the devil? And Jesus himself called Satan "the father of the lie".

    We need to be so careful about believing what "the world" tells us, and stick very closely to all the guidance in the Inspired Scriptures, both Hebrew and Christian Greek. They are a light shining in a very dark place, and will get us safely through to the restored earthly paradise.

    I haven't yet finished reading the article. I can only take so much at any one time, but I hope that when I do, I will comment. And thanks to you and Danusha for this posting.

  5. The source of antipolonism is family tradition. "Polish people murdered my grandma's brother. We have heard the stories first hand on the rampant antisemitism in Poland pre, during and post war. The stories will continue to live, no matter what you sign with this gov. Especially this year on holocaust day." I have never met a similar statement criticizing Germany, Austria and a dozen nations participating in the Holocaust. There is no Holocaust education, even if there are so many museums, books, educational organisations and projects. Poland is dominated by academicians, media, organisation researching crimes committed by ethnic Poles. The philosemites have no contacs with the people like this writers, who would accept only total surrender of Poland, acceptation of Holocaust distortion replacing Germany with Poland, money from poor Poland, even if they have obtained already money from Germany. 90% of Polish Jews lived in ghettos and had no contact with Christian Poles. Such statement is rejected as antisemitic, a Holocaust distortion. Jewish academicians do not oppose the stereotypes. Daniel Blatman is hated as a revisionist. https://1943.pl/en/artykul/this-musum-may-be-the-last-of-its-kind/

  6. Rabbi E. Poupko criticizes Poland
    "#Poland's abuse of Jews continues 75 years after the #holocaust."
    The students may visit Ulma Family Museum, I hope he is unaware of this.

  7. Rabbi Poupko criticized in 2020 an Israeli hocker player who played for Oswięcim team. "Frankly, anyone iliving in that town today is very guilty"

  8. https://twitter.com/mehow87/status/1636753479623483393?t=NuL8_B-9EnImH_3KHzVBJQ&s=19 The text is short, but I believe it could be serious. It does not mention 45 years of censorship in Poland.

  9. I have not watched the show but I brelieve that North American stereotypes which cause shootings of Jews are more important than the ones in Eastern Europe opressed by Russia.

    1. Here is link to the show https://thecjn.ca/podcasts/vertip/

  10. Here is the link to the show https://thecjn.ca/podcasts/vertip/ Read the CJN, you may be surprised.

  11. Geography of the Holocaust

    There are controversies regarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Poland What is "Poland" in the context of the Holocaust? Poland was invided by Germany and SU, who decided to cancel Poland. The land has been divided into many parts, annexed to other lands, the 'rump' was organized as German colony of "General Government". I have had a recent controversy, a Jewish editor wrote "Łódź, Poland", "Chełmno, Poland". I corrected this to "Litzmannstadt, Wartheland, Germany", "Kulmhof, Wartheland, Germany". The editor posted a text (from Wikipedia ?) which supports my version and called me "liar". Maps of pre-war Europe are sometimes used in Holocaust education. Especially Americans are puzzled by European geography. Stutthof was in former Free City of Danzig, Gross Rosen in Germany,
    Auschwitz was in Germany.

    1. And it is ancient history to the young. I was watching a tiny little girl - maybe about 3 years old - run across the Green the other day, and thinking that my childhood in 1950s England will be as remote to her as the Victorian era was to me. It will seem just as impossibly far away, yet really it was no time at all. Our lives are so short now.

      I can see you are very concerned about all this Jerzy, as you should be, because you post a lot. But how do you feel we should be tackling this? What, realistically, can we do about it?

      We are caught in a cunning Catch 22 - which is a bit tautological I suppose, as all Catch 22s are cunning. But if we don't protest the continuing vilification of all things Polish and protest the way Poland is being moved to the Axis Side, then it must be true, or we would protest it.

      But when we do protest it, then we are called Deniers - and we will be contrasted unfavourable with Germany, as they have admitted their guilt. While we have not - for the simple reason that Poland did not carry out the Holocaust but was yet another victim of the Nazis. However, the facts have to give way to the current politics apparently.

      So either way, we are made to look very bad indeed.

      My own thought is that we can, if we wish, try to get the truth out there in whichever way we can - while of course being constantly vilified for doing so, but never retaliating in kind, never vilifying others. Psalm 37 contains perfect advice, and the comforting assurance of infinitely better things on the earth. I cannot recommend it strongly enough.

      I also never go to the Defensive Corner - a position of great weakness, in my opinion. I prefer the "AND we shot Bambi's mother" approach.

      And above all, I try to find more opportunities in this for witnessing to the incoming Kingdom of God, the heavenly government for whose coming Jesus taught us to pray, while tackling this. That way I can always stay positive.

      So, I would be very interested to know how you tackle it, how you keep going in the face of all the lies and the hatred?

  12. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NationalStereotypes/EasternEurope National Stereotypes / Eastern Europe There are hidden sections describing Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, you have to click to read them.

  13. I have not listened to the podcast, I hardly understand spoken English
    I believe that the editor has misinterpreted Grabowski's words.
    "Since 2018, a new law has made it illegal for researchers and academics to say that Poles were collaborators with the Nazis, or that they helped hunt down, round up and murder the country’s three million Jews." is Holocaust distortion.


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