Sunday, February 11, 2018

Blog Reader Asks: Is a Relationship with Jews Necessary for Poles?

Chris asked, "Is a good relationship with Jews important for Poles? A lot of people are writing rather bigoted things about Poles and I get the feeling that even if Poles acquiesced to the demands of the most vocal that nothing would change. A relationship of mutual respect would not be the result. All that would remain is a one-way relationship for which only Jews would benefit. The bigotry would remain or might intensify because the conciliatory attitude would be interpreted as a welcome mat for abuse. Would it be better if Poles and Jews just parted ways?"

My answer can be found in the book Bieganski. I hope all will read it.

A highly condensed and very simplified version here: Poles cannot escape negative stereotyping, for reasons I lay out in the book. Not only Jews, but non-Jews also stereotype Poles. James Carroll is, I think, Irish-American, and a former Catholic priest, and he has disseminated a highly influential version of Bieganski in his book "Constantine's Sword."

There is no escape for Poles when it comes to this stereotype. Poles must educate themselves – thus my book – and respond appropriately, thus blogs like this one, on the Crisis in Polonian Leadership, Organization, and Vision. As that blog entry lays out, there are things we could be doing and should be doing that we don't do. Poles and Polonians need to grow up and address the stereotype in an effective way.

About our relationship with Jews. Yes, Poles and Polonians should and must remain in relationship with Jews. This link takes you to a series of blog posts. These blog posts address the importance of Poland to Jews, the importance of Jews to Poland, love as a factor in Polish-Jewish relations, and Jews' defense of Poland. Anyone thinking of writing off Polish-Jewish interactions should really read this series of blog posts.

I'll repeat something I've said a million times. The problem here is us. We need to change our behavior. I stand by what I wrote in the blog series on the crisis in Polonian leadership, organization, and vision. We could and should be doing things to counteract the stereotype, and we just aren't doing them. And our failure is not Jewish people's fault. The good side is that the power for a better tomorrow is in our hands. We just have to exercise that power.


  1. Us changing will never be enough as long as people that hold the megaphone keep spreading anti-polish bias.

    We can't see Jews through rose-tinted glasses. As faulty as recent IPN legislation was it served a great purpose. It brought to popular attention how hated Poles are by Jewish community all over the world and all those Jewish Culture festivals, all that apologizing for criminals doing bidding of Germans and Soviets as if all Poles participated resulted in nothing for Polish people and it's never going to be enough.

    Polish politicians are still in apologetic mode, but public is already past it sometimes demanding symmetry in relations which would undeniably be seen as anti-semitic stance. We also can't pretend that Jews and others didn't work to smear Poles because weak Poland and leprous Poles are conditions that might bring gain to many parties. That was the case in the past and it is today.

    1. Please verify any Wikipedia text. I'm involve din the project, so I'm aware its limitations.

  2. Sczczepan, please use a real name. The rest of us do.

    "We can't see Jews through rose-tinted glasses. "

    At this very moment a crazed and obscene Jewish woman is insulting me and lying about me on Facebook. I have never encountered her before. Her posts are all so messily formatted and so badly misspelled it is hard to read them.

    Polish men and women passed right by her posts and said nothing.

    A *Jewish woman* stood up and defended me.

    While Polonian men remained silent.

    This has happened to me again and again. Jews have come to my defense, while Poles have said nothing.

    Ethnicity and religion do not determine who is a decent person.

    Only deluded chauvinists believe that they do.

  3. If you are looking for ideas, I have one that could help. Raise money from Polonians to settle Jewish property claims. Poles and Polish-Americans are seen as greedy and heartless. Settling some claims would conflict with that image. It might be possible to settle one or two claims with money raised.

    Chris Helinsky

    1. Doing so would validate the claims made against Poland, and furthermore would only lead to further demands. So said Norman Finkelstein.

      Finkelstein has been proved 100% right. In fact, Poland has already paid for communal Jewish properties (1997 law) and--guess what--now there are more demands.


    An Israeli group doesn't like to stay in Poland and later is happy in Berlin, near former Gestapo Headquaters.


  5. Thanks, Jerzy7, for this eye-opening article from HAARETZ magazine.

    So Germany bought Israel's forgiveness.

    It is something that Poles already knew many decades ago.

    Hint. Hint. And now it is the Poles' turn to buy Israeli forgiveness (for what)?

  6. This isn't just about money. It's shameful to suggest that it is.

    There are Polish anti-Semites. They did commit atrocities against Jews. The reasons why Poles are stereotyped in a way that Germans are not are complex and are explored in my book.

  7. Christian (!) Davies defends Jews in the Guardian. A caption under a picture "A crowd surround a dead man on the street in the Warsaw ghetto around 1940". Will a reader understand that the man was starved by Germans, not killed by Poles?

    1. As long as it promotes the standard narrative, what does it matter if it is disingenuous or otherwise at Poland's expense?

  8. Hello,

    There is an online petition, to send a message to political leaders: Do not tear us apart, again.
    Link below.

  9. I've read an interview with Finkelstein lately. He said there is one key difference between how Jews view Germans and how they view Poles. Hatred for the Germans resulted from the Holocaust before there was much looking up to them and respect. Poles have for a long time been viewed as stupid and uncivilised peasents. So their hatred for the Germans was based on Logic. There hatred for the Poles was based on instinct and emotion. They have already forgiven the Germans but not the Poles who had the duty to sacrifice their less worthy lives for them. I am not making this up! I've read it is a German online publication were the daughter of Holocaust survivors tells us she hates the Poles because they have not apologized for not doing enough. Unlike the glorious Germans. She also loves Berlin. You know the city where mobs were burning the Star of David next to the Holocaust memorial. Finkelstein is right they do not care about such minor details. As long as it suits Israel. Poland was the only EU country supportive of Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. I was so proud that then- stupid me. Then it made me think-do we need to depreciate ourselves to do the bidding of a country that seems very keen to bring the next World War near the European borders causing a monstrous refugee crisis? Should we behave like a battered wife?

    We should learn from this experience. Right now Germany is importing people of a similar mentality of entitlement. People who act very similar to the state of Israel and some Jewish organisations. Never Again should Poland import people of a vastly different culture. If someone wants to become Polish well welcome if not- stay out. We are a national community offering solidarity to its to its in return for their work on its behalf and their loyalty-not a service provider.


Bieganski the Blog exists to further explore the themes of the book Bieganski the Brute Polak Stereotype, Its Role in Polish-Jewish Relations and American Popular Culture.
These themes include the false and damaging stereotype of Poles as brutes who are uniquely hateful and responsible for atrocity, and this stereotype's use in distorting WW II history and all accounts of atrocity.
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