The page proprietor, AFAIK, identifies only as "Notes from Poland."
What I was seeing in my Facebook feed was mostly posts saying that Poland is a backward / Catholic / conservative / racist / Islamophobic / homophobic / anti-Semitic wasteland, and that it really needed Westerners to learn how to be *progressive.* Good, worthy people like Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron could teach Poland to rise up from its lowly state and become something worthy.
By the way I just googled Macron's name to see if it is spelled with an "a" or an "e" but I found this headline instead: "Since Taking Office, Macron Has Spent $31,000 to Keep Looking Young." This is the person who can educate Poland on how to be acceptable.
Back to "Notes from Poland."
So, what gives? Why would a facebook page call itself "Notes from Poland" and yet dedicate itself to news clips denigrating Poland as a fetid backwater where Neanderthals scratch their crotches while taking a break from torturing Muslims and feminists?
Look. I get it that Poland is a conservative, traditionally Catholic country. That is one reason I don't live there. I like living in the US, especially New Jersey, which is a wild mix of languages, skin tones, religions, cultures, cuisines, dresses.
I did feel a bit ... claustrophobic at times in Poland, which, simply, has tighter cultural horizons than my native US.
I really didn't like, for example, Sundays in any given small, Polish town. Frankly, I just wanted to scream. Everything felt so slow, so pinned down. In America, you can imagine anything happening at any given moment. In a small Polish town on Sunday, you can't imagine *anything* happening. Except a good part of the male population drinking too much.
But Poland is Poland and that is its beauty, too. There is a communal feeling in Poland, an intimacy, an intense connection to place, that I have never encountered in the US.
I remember asking my friend Beata, if you were reincarnated, what would you come back as? She replied, as one of the stones in the wall around Krakow.
I can't imagine any American saying anything similar. We are always on the move; our eyes are always on the next opportunity.
Different places. Different cultures.
Progressives champion "tolerance" and "multi-culturalism" and "co-existence" and "diversity." And "peace" and "love" and "understanding."
But progressive are so very *intolerant* and opposed to multi-culturalism when they are talking about Europe's most Catholic country.
And all those "peace, love and understanding" progressives competed with each other to label anyone who diverged *one micrometer* from their agenda as "Hitler."
If I had a dime for every time I was denounced as a virtual Nazi on that page ... so much progressive peace, love, and understanding. So much tolerance. So much civility. I could choke.
The posts on the "Notes from Poland" page emphasized that Poland would not be any good until it stopped being Poland, and became a Muslim country, or at least a country with a sizable Muslim population. Until it became a not-Catholic country.
In short, all those "progressives" on the "Notes from Poland" page want cultural genocide -- of Poland. Of a Catholic country with its own mores and values and traditions and history.
And all those posts, insisting that Poland was a nauseating, evil place full of "block-headed nationalists" and "fascists" and "white supremacists" and "neo-Nazis" and "Neanderthals" and -- shudder -- Catholics -- all those people hating on Poland, being intolerant of Poland, being racist against Poland -- all those progressives had Polish names.
What gives? Why are people named "Stanislaw" and "Basia" insisting that Poland is a giant geographic abortion that must be destroyed to become worthy?
Me, I don't know. Open to explanations.
Update: this story broke yesterday. A Polish man was beaten and his wife was gang-raped in front of him on an Italian beach by refugees. Story here
Another update. Robert Skarba offers the following:
Danusha, ever since the current Polish government took over in the fall of 2015, the West-loving (Germany-loving ,and often Germany-sponsored, to be exact) opposition has done everything and anything in their power to overturn them. That includes writing covert denunciatory articles in foreign press as well as smearing Poland any place possible as a backward, stupid, ultra-conservative, Nazi-like country... Take a look at some covers of the Polish edition of `Newsweek` published within the last few years, for example...
Update: this story broke yesterday: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/08/italy-muslim-migrants-beat-polish-tourist-gang-rape-his-wife-on-rimini-beach
ReplyDelete? It's not a facebook page - it's a blog. It's run by a Daniell Tilles a British Jew looking for anti-Semitism and Stanley Bill an Australian something. originally from Perth who now lectures at Cambridge. They are security risks but unfortunately the incompetent government has not treated them as such.
DeleteCorrection - Stanley Bill is also from Britain though grew up in Australia. They want to build a multicultural, multiethnic Poland like that of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, etc, etc.
DeleteIt's a facebook page. The link is in the blog post, above. It may be a blog as well. I have never seen the blog, only the Facebook page.
DeleteI posted this blog post on Facebook as well. I received some valuable comments. I repeat this one with permission.
ReplyDeleteAndy Gołębiowski: The concepts of shame and inferiority complex continue to.be very strong among many Poles. Do you know the word "zacofanie" ? It is still very much used in Poland to describe backwardness, describe people as primitive and provincial. "...a słoma mu wystaje z butów" (He still has straw is sticking out of his shoes). Americans in general do not denigrate hickness as much as Europeans do. The President of the U.S. can be photographed in a flannel shirt working on his ranch.
Ashamed Poles must prove that they belong in the world.
What you describe is the classic PEDAGOGIKA WSTYDU (Pedagogy of Shame). It is an ongoing attempt to shame Poles into being compliant with various foreign demands. It goes back centuries.
DeleteIn recent decades, the PEDAGOGIKA WSTYDU had been perfected by the Communists. Whenever the Communists accused you of something, your only hope of rehabilitation and acceptance was to freely admit everything you were accused of. So long as you did not, the accusations kept being repeated fast and furious.
The current Neo-Marxist effort to smear and shame Poland is being actively promoted by a group of internationalists, Euro-enthusiasts, moral nihilists, the LEWACTWO (the Polish Left), and George Soros types.
As we have vividly seen with recent developments in America, cultural Marxism is also a pernicious undercurrent in the USA. This includes attempts to rewrite history and enforce silence via bullying tactics (e. g, political correctness), and to smear anyone who disagrees with this agenda as (what else?) a hater.
Jan you may be right. I don't know. What I do know is that I discovered on this anti Polish facebook page that I don't know much about this new Poland, the post 1989 Poland. that was the last time I lived there for any length of time, and Poland has changed.
DeleteI'll give just one concrete example. I mentioned the New Year's Eve rapes that took place in Europe a couple of years back.
A Polish woman insisted that these rapes *never happened.*
That's a complete denial of an historical reality. It's spooky.
Back in the day, Polish people were aware of the state's rewriting of history and manipulation of facts.
Are today's Poles really so clueless that they have no idea how they are being manipulated?
Hello,
DeleteIn Poland such people are called lemingi (lemmings). In USA they would be called millennials I guess.
They are ashamed to be Polish. Usually they are also ashamed to be white and christian.
They will always side with the stronger group.
They would never hide their neighbours from the Germans.
Human material of poor quality. That's what they are.
Excellent point, Lukasz:
DeleteLemingi--"Human material of poor quality. That's what they are."
But how did we get to this state of affairs?
Years ago, I heard a hypothesis that stated that the best and brightest constituents had largely been removed from the Polish gene pool owing to centuries of systematic murders (e. g, Katyn) and forced emigration.
Sometimes I wonder...
Hello Mr. Peczkis,
DeleteWe lost many valuable people do to mass murders and forced emigration, but that doesn't make current generation of Poles worthless.
They often have resistance fighters and solidarity members on their family trees. But they never faced a real threat in their lives. Plus they are subjected to Pedagogy of Shame now more than ever. Such humiliation will backfire eventually.
Poles need a challenge. Teutonic knights, Swedes, Ottomans, Nazis, Soviets. All those changing faces of evil.
Maybe this islamisation of Europe is what this generation needs.
Lukasz can I entice you to write a blog post about lemmings?
DeleteWhen it comes to lemmings I'm not objective. I know such people. They are so depressing and so disappointing. My post would turn into a rant.
DeleteLemmings deserve to be analysed by scientists.
All I can offer are anecdotes of my "lemming encounters".
Interesting Jan that you speak of "an ongoing attempt to shame Poles into being compliant" - because I have felt for some time that I am being pressured by "the world" into making a Stalinist-style denunciation of my dear aged father and all his generation.
DeleteAnd one of the reasons I do try to tackle a Polish media issue every so often is to make it very clear that I am not going to make that declaration. I love and honour both my parents, and intend to go on doing so.
On the Doubleplusgood side, this does help me in my aim to be "no part" of the world"
Jehovah's word really is a light shining in a very dark place. He commands us to honour our parents.
From Robert Skarba
ReplyDeleteRobert Skarba: Danusha, ever since the current Polish government took over in the fall of 2015, the West-loving (Germany-loving ,and often Germany-sponsored, to be exact) opposition has done everything and anything in their power to overturn them. That includes writing covert denunciatory articles in foreign press as well as smearing Poland any place possible as a backward, stupid, ultra-conservative, Nazi-like country... Take a look at some covers of the Polish edition of `Newsweek` published within the last few years, for example...
Absolutely! And this includes the incessant propaganda that accuses the PiS government of being a threat to democracy in Poland. We even have the so-called KOD, a group of LEWAKS whose very name (KOD) enshrines the pretense of defending democracy in Poland.
DeleteI'm no fan of PiS. Or Trump.
DeleteBut the Notes from Poland / Poland must stop being Poland in order to be an acceptable nation attitude is not my attitude, either.
KOD is a modern Targowica. Band of ex-commies and liberals. They are affraid to loose their privileges. And they are paid by foreigners.
DeleteI've read comments on Facebook and I have a question...
Is that sweet muffin Mrs Rubin's child? :)
Yes. We are watching her grow up long distance. It's great. She's a beauty.
DeleteLukasz Liron sent this to me and asked me to share it with you.
DeleteLukasz,
Who is Mrs. Rubin?
🙂
Thank you!
I'll tell her you called her a sweet muffin.
Liron
PS please cal me Liron. I only signed in as Mrs. Rubin because Liron is one of those irritating unisex Israeli names.
There is political conflict in Poland and the society is strongly divided. Notes from Poland, as far as I have seen after browsing through their site, are mainly critical of the current Polish government, which is hardly "anti-Polish". In fact, many think that the current government is in fact anti-Polish, as it is working hard to destroy many of the accomplishments of the last 28 years. Moreover, the moral and intellectual level of people now in power in Poland is despair-inducing, which, I imagine, is easy to understand for at least some US citizens in the era of Trump.
ReplyDeleteAs far as news about crimes committed by migrants in Europe are concerned, it is really hard to learn the facts. There are some media which avoid mentioning anything which could reflect badly on African migrants in Europe; there are others which exaggerate things and assume that every crime must have been committed by a dark-skinned migrants.
As far as that horrifying rape in Rimini is concerned, the identity of perpetrators is not yet known. One of the victims (the man) described them as two having "olive skin" and two being "lighter".
Piotr, my experiences at Notes from Poland were very negative. Great pressure to hate on Catholicism and Poland as it is, and to insist that it become something else.
DeleteHello Mr. Sitarek,
DeleteCurrent government has many vices. But just look who is attacking them?
Foreigners and their pets.
Polish opposition parties are bunch of swindlers (PO), or paid puppets (Nowoczesna, KOD).
Their foreign masters are even worse. People who experiment on their nations like some doctor Mengele. Political correctness, multi-culti, open borders. They have brought so much suffering upon the people of Europe.
I don't like PiS, but I stand with them.
As for Rimini case. Italian police claims that those were four illegal immigrants from North Africa. Later they raped a Peruvian transvestite man. I suppose that his dress was not “Shariah compliant”.
Hello again,
DeleteFew days ago in Warsaw a police officer was wounded by a knifeman. Mainstream media claim that attacker is an Israeli. Other sources claim that he's an Arab from Israel and his name is Ibrahim.
It seems that some people are Israeli, while other people are only "from Israel". Also some media are correct, while other media are only "politically correct".
Being critical of the current government to the extent these people have been is in fact anti-Polish. Running like dogs to their Kraut or globalist massas just like they ran like dogs to Moscow before. It's in their blood - only a purge will save the nation.
DeleteHello Mr Klimek,
DeleteDo you accept that there might be political disagreement without insults and accusations of treason? I am no foreigner nor foreign paid. I have lived and worked hard all my life in Poland. I have nothing to be ashamed as far as any family ties are concerned (some Home Army soldiers, not one single family member in the communist party to considerable personal detriment - I wonder how many right-wingers could claim that?).
Let me tell you, PIS is genuinely repulsive to me. Two main reasons - first, it is the reincarnation of the old endecja, which represents all that was bad about the Second Republic in my eyes. Second, because it is a party of people of incredibly low moral and intellectual quality. The third issue is that they are even dumber than I thought at first.
Mr Geizer - did you also have a problem with PIS running with accusations to the European Parliament that there had been massive fraud during the regional elections?
Do you have a problem with important communist party members or communist repression apparatus functionaries playing crucial roles in PIS? (one example, Mr Piotrowicz, the face of PIS 'justice reforms", is a former communist prosecutor).
My view is the following - EU is not USSR, it is a democratic organization in which Poland belongs of its own volition and which it can always leave if it so desires. Poland is voluntarily bound by EU law, as it brings many more benefits than losses. Therefore, there is nothing wrong, in my eyes, with either PIS or PO discussing Polish matters in the European fora, provided that the accusations discussed are serious and well-substantiated. In fact, many here in Poland find hope in the thought that we are not entirely cut off from the outside world and the wannabe home-grown dictator cannot as yet do everything he would like to.
The kind of name-calling that Piotr refers to also takes place in academia. Polish scholars who disagree with the standard Pole-accusing narrative are summarily dismissed as "nationalists". So we have the "nationalists" on one hand and the "not real Poles" on the other. I reject this misleading and emotive dichotomy.
DeleteSince Orwellian labeling is going on anyway, however, I focus on behaviors and not motives. Thus, in my reviews, I refer to:
Judeo-independent Polish scholars
and
Judeo-compliant Polish scholars
Endecja was the most "western" of all parties in the Second Republic. They followed European trends in politics. Nationalism and antisemitism were very popular in the West.
DeletePiS is not antisemitic. And hardly nationalistic in my opinion.
When it comes to morality PiS looks much better than the opposition. Just to mention few:
Hanna Gronkiewicz-Waltz is involved in reprivatisation scandal. And she allowed Saudis to build a mosque in place of Reduta Ordona.
Ryszard Petru is involved in Swiss-franc loans swindle. And he cheated on his wife with a female member of Nowoczesna party.
Mateusz Kijowski was stealing money from KOD's funds. And he doesn't pay child support.
Any home-grown dictator would need help from a foreign country. By "help" I mean military intervention. And the only candidates for despots are those paid pets from PO/KOD/Nowoczesna.
"PiS is not antisemitic. And hardly nationalistic in my opinion. "
DeletePlease tell Daniel Tilles of "Nots from Poland."
Jan Peczkis wrote
Delete"Judeo-independent Polish scholars
and
Judeo-compliant Polish scholars"
And that is an anti-Semitic statement.
Is it?
DeleteAre Poles obligated to conform to whatever Jews say about Poles and Poland (whence the term Judeocompliant)?
I think not.
Jan please work on this issue within yourself. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
DeleteThe communists in PiS are an exception - not the rule. You can't compare the two sides that way. Moreover, not all Communists (even in the repression apparatus) were "bad." The "other" side has plenty of its own favorite Communists such as Mr. Bauman. Endecja was not all that was bad but rather much that was good about the 2nd Republic. If you can't understand that, then there is no room for debate with you. Dmowski for all his failures was a commoner who tried to give Poles a sense of national identity and self-respect. You may quibble with some of his thoughts and wince at some of his comments but he was effective in establishing what it means to be Polish. No one has given an alternative since.
DeleteRegarding the EU - you are right it is not the CCCP. The real question is whether the people who are driving its shape now want it to become what, to them, the CCCP should have been. I think all decent Europeans should say no to further experimentation.
Dowski wasn't Endecja and Endecja wasn't Dmowski, the relation was more complicated. Dmowski demanded rational politics, unfortunately was obsessionally anti-Semitic, especially after 1926.
DeleteThere is much more to Dmowski and the Polish national movement than commonly realized. I have reviewed a whole series of works by Dmowski, Lutoslawski, and other thinkers.
DeleteTo see my reviews of these books, please click on my link in this specific posting.
@JPankiewicz: Now here is a question for you: was what happen in 1926 the same as what happened in Egypt in the overthrow of the Arab revolution?
DeleteI don't know what happened in Egipt. In Poland sevaral parties wanted radical changes, and I believe that a nationalistic revolution was dangerous. The constitution made Poland unstable in hostile neighbourhood.
Delete"the moral and intellectual level of people now in power in Poland is despair-inducing" - the opposition in Poland is unable to formulate any agenda. Grzegorz Schetyna and Ryszard Petru have to be replaced by more competent people. PiS, as bad as it is, has partially solved the problem of poor children, described even in "Gazeta Wyborcza" but ignored by "Sowa i Przyjaciele" guests.
ReplyDeleteThe opposition is very weak, I agree. It is one of the reasons why PIS is so strong, despite its incompetence.
DeleteAs far as the problem of poor children, it is definitely not solved, but I agree that PIS made an important move. It is badly designed and unjust (it discriminates against single child families, it pays money also to very rich people) as well as probably unsustainable (Poland is unable to pay for it in the long term, especially coupled with reversing retirement age reforms). PO also made important moves in social sphere (investment in kindergartens and nurseries, which are crucial in allowing young families to have children and especially women to combine motherhood with working), but cash transfers made a much bigger impression on the electorate, no doubt.
Dr Goska,
Deletemaybe I have not seen the posts you mention. I think there is a thin line between being self-hating and legitimately self-critical. After all, some of the greatest Polish tradtions have to do with reform and change, including the Constitution of May 3, 1791. Ask anybody leaving now in Poland, everyone will agree that change is necessary and that there is plenty to be critical about. Of course, people disagree as to what to change and what to keep. But I have yet to meet a person who claims everything is fine as it is.
"maybe I have not seen the posts you mention"
DeletePiotr Sitarek, why not? There are right there on the page, plain as day. they are not hidden. What's going on?
Did you not see the post by the woman with a Polish name insisting that the New Year's Eve rapes never happened? Which is a denial of objective reality and important news?
Did you not see the post by the man insisting that now that Muslim-preferred food is widely available in Poland, Poland is suddenly a country fit to live in?
That before Muslim-preferred food arrived in Poland, with Muslim immigrants, Poland was unfit to live in? Too backward, provincial, too *Polish*?
Did you not see the posts insisting that Polish Catholics are all hypocrites and scum and oppressive?
Did you not see the posts insisting that Poland is a racist, bigoted country in a way that no other country is racist and bigoted?
I could go on but what would the point be?
I really have to wonder about your post.
I think that Piotr's point, on the difference between self-hatred and legitimate criticism, needs to be clarified.
DeleteAs an example, imagine if the events at Jedwabne and Koniuchy were juxtaposed and equally-publicized, and used to teach us lessons about the dangers of collective revenge. I consider myself a reasonable person, and certainly could accept that.
But that is not what is happening at all. Check out the media and academia. All we hear about is Jedwabne, and it is done in an accusatory, malicious spirit, and in order to promote the standard narrative of the villainous Catholic Pole.
No sane Pole should agree to this obviously anti-Polish arrangement.
A clarification: My support for the PiS government is qualified.
ReplyDeleteThe PiS government tiptoes around all the standard Jewish accusations thrown at Poland. It has never taken a clear and unequivocal stand against the claims of the Holocaust Industry. And so on.
I wonder why.
Oh, get off your Jew horse. You really have a one-track mind. The people who are attacking Poland are not only Jews. They have names. They have houses. They go to sleep. What has PiS done? Nada.
DeleteJan 'the standard Jewish accusations thrown at Poland"
DeleteWe've been through this before. Please don't post this to my blog.
There is no such thing as a "Jewish accusation."
Many who attack Poland are NOT Jewish. If you want to see examples, look at the Polacy saying nasty things about Poland on the Notes from Poland page
And plenty of Jews support Poland in ways much more significant than anything you or I have ever done.
So please just stop it and don't post this nonsense to my page
Poland and Israel have warm, friendly relations.
DeleteBut some Jews and some Poles in America are still fighting old battles.
Diasporas should be examples to homelands. Instead, they are pickled in hatred.
I don't understand it. There are no Nazis and no Soviets in America. No one who could "divide and conquer" that country. Perfect place to get along.
America is all about a new start.
So what happened?
Lukasz in my experience most Americans of Polish descent are not anti-Semitic and don't blame Jews for anything. In my experience, the hostility is more common among Jews in America, but they are open to learning and hearing more.
DeleteSome aren't. I've mentioned my facebook friend Paul here. he ... doesn't seem to want to hear the other side. The other day he made a joke about white trash. So stereotyping, I guess, is okay with him.
I know, in my real life, no Polish Americans who use terms like "judeo compliant."
I do not agree that this is "some Poles and some Jews still fighting old battles". It is fundamental, deep-seated, and unchanging.
DeleteHow can it be said that Poland and Israel have friendly relations when leading Israeli publications regularly write defamatory articles about Poland, and when visiting Israeli teenagers feel free to express open disrespect to their Polish hosts?
Nothing has really changed in recent decades. Thirty years ago it was Claude Lanzmann, and now it is Jan T. Gross that is the hero in academia and media.
Otherwise, Holocaust-related thinking remains as dominant as ever, and that is what drives antagonism towards Poland. Yes, America is about a new start, but don't bother to tell that to the Holocaust establishment. It is all about cultivating old grudges and blaming others, and certainly not about making a new start. Just the opposite
If you study academic works, as I do, you will see for yourself that genuine amiability between Jews and Poles is somewhere between illusory and marginal. The whole collective mindset of academia consists of unremitting Holocaust-related hostility towards Poles and towards Christianity. In fact, the term Judeocompliant comes into play because too many Polish academics feel that the only way to "make it" in academia is to conform to the usual negative characterizations of Poland.
His name is "Ibrahim H" and has lived in Poland for over year. Apparently, about month in some youth hostel. Yes, he is an Israeli citizen. Obviously he should be sent back - with a resume like this, he will do well there.
ReplyDeleteUpthread Jan Peczkis is saying stuff about Jews. I disagree. I don't have time to address his every post. I can just say this.
ReplyDeleteJewish groups and institutions have invited me to speak about
Bieganski. I have received fewer invitations from Poles.
With all due respect to your personal experiences (and I too have had positive experiences with individual Jews), I think that we must focus on the total picture. This is especially the case where it counts the most--the opinion-forming institutions.
DeleteIt is out of these institutions (academia, media, and entertainment industry), the ones in which Jews are the most prominent, that consistently emerge by far the darkest portrayals of Poland, and the ones that do the greatest damage to Poland's reputation overall.
"With all due respect to your personal experiences (and I too have had positive experiences with individual Jews),"
DeleteI cannot respect this comment.
I published the only scholarly book devoted to Polish-Jewish relations and stereotyping and how negative stereotyping of Poles by Jews and others has distorted history.
For Mr Peczkis to suggest that I am "focused on personal experiences" is not a strong indication of the substance of his arguments.
Jan I'm not interested in a back and forth with you. You made comments here that I assess as anti-Semitic, and I said so. You've had your say, as well. I'm not interested in a back and forth on this specific topic. If you have something new to add, or if you want to apologize to me and others, please feel free. If you just want to go back and forth on whether your previous comment is intellectually defensible, I won't post that. You've had your say.
How Jews view Poles (and I think it is pretty clear that there is a veiled anti-Polonism among a significant segment of the Jewish community - though this anti-Polonism is, if you will, part of a broader anti-redneckism or, if you will, elitism (not that different from how many whites view blacks btw) - is beside the point. What should matter are the specific people who attack Poles and Poland - whether Jewish or German or Dutch or whatever. If you make an example of them, the rest will shut up. What they think of Poles in their hearts after that, who cares - we don't need to be thought police.
ReplyDeleteYes and no A Gelzer. We certainly don't want to add any more Thought Police - more than enough as it is! But doesn't our speech and our action comes from what is in our hearts?
DeleteIsn't that why the God of Abraham teaches his people to control their own thoughts? We must not steal, or course. But also must not "covet" our neighbours goods. We must try to fight the thought patterns that lead us to stealing, or to committing adultery, or to murder.
So what people think about others will come out in their thoughts and in their speech.
But, yes, much more so when they know its safe to do so. And, at the moment, as we have been carefully placed on the "unter" page in The Handbook of Political Correctness, its pretty safe.
Its not career-threatening at any rate.
If you were wondering, the person behind Notes From Poland is Daniel Tilles. His twitter says that he is the creator. Here is his page from the Pedagogical University of Krakow.
ReplyDeletehttp://up-krakow.academia.edu/DanielTilles
Chris Helinsky