tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post689994384039840606..comments2024-03-11T08:31:04.022-04:00Comments on Bieganski the Blog: University of Wisconsin-Superior: White Skin Is Unfair D Goskahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-23596640131323061382013-02-26T17:16:22.460-05:002013-02-26T17:16:22.460-05:00Yes, there were Poles who thought this way. On the...Yes, there were Poles who thought this way. On the other hand, I have come across contrary informed opinions. <br /><br />Consider, for example, the testimony of an 1860-era long-term English visitor to partitioned Poland. To see my detailed review of his fascinating treatise, please click on my name in this specific posting. Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/review/R3L5QMTDIAF6FH/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1112112790&linkCode&nodeID&tag#wasThisHelpfulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-43844934773502840992013-02-26T17:03:52.786-05:002013-02-26T17:03:52.786-05:00Me "a repeated yaesayer for Mr. Dmowski"...Me "a repeated yaesayer for Mr. Dmowski"? I had kind of figured were you were coming from, but had given you the benefit of a doubt. Now it is clear. <br /><br />Aggressor Prussia partitioned? By whom? Germany partitioning Germany? I rather doubt it.<br /><br />All that in addition to your continued disparaging of Polish achievements, including the high 12% rate of nobility--much higher than that of many other nations. <br /><br />You have just now confirmed my suspicion of your adhering to an essentially Marxist conception of national consciousness, even if you had not explicitly intended to before. <br /><br />Yes, you surely sound like having racist conceptions of eastern Europe. To even consider, as a legitimate point, eastern Europe as not being a part of Europe--is itself racist on its face. <br /><br />Elites...classes...semantics.<br /><br />Yes, Poles have criticized their own, but not with this kind of one-sided disparaging ideation. <br /><br />Those readers interested in a variety of viewpoints on the good and bad points of Partition-era Polish society, see my Listmania on Partitioned Poland.<br /><br />Enough said.<br />Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3Q04XXGGED746/ref=cm_aya_bb_revnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-58248074700781557402013-02-26T16:04:09.930-05:002013-02-26T16:04:09.930-05:00I'm not an historian. Everything I know about ...I'm not an historian. Everything I know about Polish history I know from reading people like Norman Davies and Antony Polonsky and others. <br /><br />From what I've read, Meir Shalita is more or less correct about the upper classes in Poland. <br /><br />In fact, Poles themselves produced scathing criticisms of Poland's upper classes.<br /><br />Again and again, critics accuse them of treating the serfs worse than they treat animals, not planning adequately for the future, maintaining an untenable situation, strangling Polish enterprise, commissioning Jews to be hated tax collectors, inn keepers and sellers of alcohol, etc. <br /><br />Again, these aren't critiques from external sources. These are critiques by Poles from within Poland. <br /><br />It's not for nothing that Poland was known proverbially as heaven for the Polish elites, paradise for the Jews, purgatory for the burgher / townsmen, and hell for the peasants. <br /><br />D Goskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-13888333897588471942013-02-26T16:00:07.235-05:002013-02-26T16:00:07.235-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.D Goskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-19249158239668243402013-02-26T14:37:02.100-05:002013-02-26T14:37:02.100-05:00"I think that it is fairly evident that Polan..."I think that it is fairly evident that Poland would have been Partitioned regardless of her internal policies"<br /><br />How so? Was Prussia partitioned (back then), if not why not?<br /><br />"The comment about 10% neglects the fact that this was proportionately higher than in many other nations, in which the nobility was 1-2% of the population."<br /><br />Oh great, makes me so happy when I'm tilling the fields - anyday now it will be 12%!<br /><br />'The remark about Konrad Adenauer about “Europe begins at the Elbe” smacks of racism against eastern Europe,"<br /><br />Can you address whether it is true before falling onto the racism bandwagon? Put differently, whether or not it's racist, it is largely true. I know, I know, truth be damned.<br /><br />"The persistent and unilateral attack on the upper classes as corrupt and solely self-interested,"<br /><br />Unilateral? Huh? The attack was not on "classes" - the attack was on elites - not because they were elites - but because these elites, as opposed to elites in say Prussia or England, failed to protect their own country. You might say it was an attack on Polish elites of the time. See now you can say it's both racist and classist! <br /><br />It is the elites' job (self-appointed no less) to run the country, therefore the rest of the populace gets to judge them on their performance in that task - by all accounts, the Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian elites performed that task woefully.<br /><br />There were no doubt plenty of indolent peasants in the Commonwealth but they can hardly be judged on running that country.<br /><br />"and the notion that national consciousness is a product of the upper classes"<br /><br />Not sure where you got that from. In fact you seem to be saying that not I and it is I that pointed out the silliness of that thinking - don't forget the 80% my friend. Polish national consciousness (for the 80%) did not really develop until the late 1800s - as a repeated yaesayer for Mr. Dmowski, I would have thought you would be the first person to agree with that.<br />Meir Shalitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-70495412430136900592013-02-26T11:26:13.695-05:002013-02-26T11:26:13.695-05:00I think that it is fairly evident that Poland woul...I think that it is fairly evident that Poland would have been Partitioned regardless of her internal policies. All nations go through periods of strength and weakness. Poland may have been a tree with a rotten core, but she did not fall from her own weight. She was felled by three axemen. <br /><br />The comment about 10% neglects the fact that this was proportionately higher than in many other nations, in which the nobility was 1-2% of the population. Feudalism was much less harsh in Poland than in many other nations. I also question the ability of significant implementation of the May 1791 Constitution, by Poles themselves, while they were under the lash of the three partitioning powers. <br /><br />The remark about Konrad Adenauer about “Europe begins at the Elbe” smacks of racism against eastern Europe, and, being an artifact of a divided Germany and the Cold War, is of little or no relevance to the long-preceding issue at hand. <br /><br />The remark about Superman strikes me as supercilious, and reinforces my earlier suspicion that this person is disparaging Poland and her capabilities. I also smell Marxist ideation: The persistent and unilateral attack on the upper classes as corrupt and solely self-interested, and the notion that national consciousness is a product of the upper classes (fitting-in with the Communist notion that the only real consciousness is class consciousness). <br />Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3Q04XXGGED746/ref=cm_aya_bb_revnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-55757578751072962462013-02-25T13:42:52.598-05:002013-02-25T13:42:52.598-05:00@PR: As far as the black experience is concerned,i...@PR: As far as the black experience is concerned,in both cases the juxtaposition was with whites - if you don't believe me, go listen to some old black men talk - so the experiences as well as the perceived enemy were both the "same".<br /><br />On Singapore: LKY was explicit in saying, "I looked around at the people running my country and asked myself why do we need them?" The them were the British. Singapore, you are right was not nor is a tight society. However, Singapore had and has tight "elites" if you will - those elites are 99% Chinese and it is they that drive the country with others incorporated, tolerated but not allowed to get too uppity. I assure you that, if you were to go live in Singapore, you'd not socialize with the ruling caste - you'd socialize with the "whites". That is how Singapore is set up - and for them it works fine (it also seems to work fine for the Indians, Malays and others or at least well enough as compared with their coutnries of origin such that they stream into Singapore).<br /><br />Back to Africa: the slave trade was what decimated the continent - not the European colonization of the late 1800s - that latter experience lasted a relatively short time and by the 50s/60s it was most definitely over (the French dreams and mercenaries notwithstanding).<br /><br />Finally: <br /><br />"Nevertheless, the period showed that there were powerful forces within the country pushing toward change (including the King) and there is no reason to suppose that had only the First Partition taken place a process of reform followed by economic development would not have been set in train" <br /><br /><br />I addressed this above but you perform quite a dance here. Why did they need the First Partition in the first place to "wake up"? There is every reason to believe that development would not have occurred - because it didn't occur before - they had no incentive to develop anything with their serfs working for them and they didn't want to change - you said it yourself. A similarity may even be drawn to the American South where the institution of slavery severely retarded industrialization as well.<br /><br />Without the First Partition the debauchement and decline would have continued on its merry way - it did from at least the 1500s-1600s all they way up (down?) to 1772. So what would have been different? <br /><br />The fact is that Poland (and most of Eastern Europe) was a basket case (no pun intended) for hundreds of years before. Generally, speaking the further East (or South) you went from England, France and Western Germany the worse it got. Even East Prussia in the 1800s was the poorest and least developed of German provinces. <br /><br />Adenauer once remarked that Europe ended on the Elbe and he was rather correct (in my view).<br /><br />Meir Shalitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-40238200085995621572013-02-25T13:16:18.903-05:002013-02-25T13:16:18.903-05:00@JP:
"How do you know all that? Sounds to ...@JP: <br /><br />"How do you know all that? Sounds to me like you have a pretty negative view of Poles and their capabilities"<br /><br />I obviously do not know and all of this "what if" ing is a like the "if Hitler had a nuclear bomb and Churchill Superman on his side" kind of debating. <br /><br />However, let's look at even 1700-1772 timneframe - what achievements were made by the nobles' republic in that time? Did they pass any constitutions? Oh, yes, the Northern War, liberum veto - the bad Russians and Prussians - strangely, the czar and the elector did not have similar problems at home. It takes two to tango my friend. <br /><br />I do note however a minor point of interest in your message, namely that you seem to be equating the "Poles" with the 10% or so nobility but apparently not with the 80% peasantry. <br /><br />One might, however, think that the real "nation" was instead the vast sea of serfs stretching from the Ukraine to Great Poland and not the royal "elites" who fancied themselves the nation.<br /><br />I have no doubt of the capability of the Poles or any other nation - but I do doubt whether a corrupt overclass would have changed anything at all even if left alone by the neighboring powers - I doubt that because the Partitions did not come out of nowhere but were merely the coup de grace of a long, long period of decline - a period during which the bearers of the national pride did absolutely nothing to halt such decline. <br />Meir Shalitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-29871351899993318212013-02-25T13:07:19.781-05:002013-02-25T13:07:19.781-05:00"The Second and Third Partitions took place i..."The Second and Third Partitions took place in order to roll back the reforms granted by the Consitution of the Third of May."<br /><br />The Constitution would not have been passed but for the First Partition that woke some (though hardly all) people up. <br /><br />"No they didn't, unless the end of feudalism was going to come through an act of will on their part."<br /><br />Err.... yes? Last I checked, Kosciuszko freed his slaves. The argument that they had no incentive economically to change anything is necessarily true but you seem to qequate that with a powerlessness on their part? Just because doing something would not be economically beneficial to me (at least in the short run) doesn't mean I'm incapable of doing it.<br /><br />It's not in my interest to give a penny to a beggar but I do (sometimes more). <br /><br />Of course, you can make that argument but I don't see how one can then square that with the complaint JP was making which was that the partitioning powers were setting up peasantry vs nobility and playing them off each other. How shameful of them. My only point was - the szlachta - got yourselves in that position.<br /><br />What I read in your message is basically an argument about abdication of all responsibility on the part of the nobility in the form of "we didn't create this mess, we are here now, we have no incentive to change anything (and that you seem to equate with we CAN'T change anything) and then oh how shameful of you Prussia to set peasants against us." <br /><br />When you read that the szlachta look like prisoners of history each and everyone of them. Amazingly, they are even unable to free their own serfs. "I wish I could set you free. I really do. But it ain't within my power, ya see because then I lose, whatchamacall it, oh yes, profits".<br /><br />They were in charge - if change were to come up it was up to them to create it. <br /><br />If not the szlachta then who?<br /><br />The only way the peasants could change anything was through rebellion which took place - the most extreme example obviously in the Ukraine.<br /><br />Meir Shalitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-80529321716394627412013-02-24T00:56:15.700-05:002013-02-24T00:56:15.700-05:00@ Meir Shalta First my apologies for getting your ...@ Meir Shalta First my apologies for getting your name wrong in my post above. It was accidental. <br /><br />Second, you wrote in answer to me "Didn't you bring blacks into this? vide:<br /><br />"What difference will a 1000 more black graduates from Ivy League institutions make to the prospects of 98% of African Americans?"<br /><br />Yes, I did - African Americans. I still don't quite understand the relevance of the experience of black South Africans to that of African Americans unless one belives in mystical, racial unions where the experience of one becomes the experience of all. Peter Rechniewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-82042576851722305402013-02-23T20:32:34.350-05:002013-02-23T20:32:34.350-05:00@ Meir Shalit No, I prefer vinyl but I play CDs as...@ Meir Shalit No, I prefer vinyl but I play CDs as well so I know all about them. Just because you've read something of the latest from the socio-biologists, a bit of Richard Dawkins and swallowed the lot simply means you're at the "cutting edge" of popular confusions/delusions. The one example in your first post was that people are "clannish". Have they found that particular gene?<br /><br />Now in your post above there are a few problems.<br /><br />In general I agree with your critique of the nationalist fantasy that the Szlachta and the Polish peasant had a lot in common but that wedge policies on the part of the Prussians turned them into enemies. Kosciuszko himself told his Szlachta supporters that he wasn't going to lead them so that the old order would return. However, you spoil the effect by first writing that "The Polish szlachta had 700 years and counting to end feudalism in Poland". No they didn't, unless the end of feudalism was going to come through an act of will on their part. That was possibly the case in Russia when Alexander1's efforts to end serfdom were stymied by the nobility but pre-18th century Poland? For the Polish Szlachta there was too little economic imperative to do so. Have a look at Hillel Levine's "Economic Origins of Antisemitism: Poland and Its Jews in the Early Modern Period".<br /><br />Feudalism ended in Western and Central Europe for a number of reasons but none of them involved the aristocracy "deciding" that it should end as a single, decisive cause.<br /><br />The rest of your critique of Peczkis (and the confusions and misunderstandings regarding European colonisation of Africa) also founders on ideas connected with either individual or social acts of will rather than broader historical forces driven by a multitude of factors. Your deployment of terms such as "cojones", "tight society" "self respect" betray a de-contexualized analysis of historical change.<br /><br />Peczkis is quite right to focus on the Partitions because they stymied change. On the other hand, your idea that without them things would have remained the same has little foundation. The Second and Third Partitions took place in order to roll back the reforms granted by the Consitution of the Third of May. They were reactionary acts and many, though not all of the Szlachta supported them in order to maintain their privileges at the expense of Polish independence. Nevertheless, the period showed that there were powerful forces within the country pushing toward change (including the King) and there is no reason to suppose that had only the First Partition taken place a process of reform followed by economic development would not have been set in train. <br /><br />You also discount the effects of Napoleon in all this. Though he shamelessly exploited the Poles (like he did everyone else) his effect across Europe, as an alleged "carrier" of Revolutionary ideas was profound. If Poland, as an independent state, had survived (whether allied to Napolean or not), and even if the reforms of its constitution were rolled back by the Congress of Vienna, a new, similar constitution could have been been granted as early as 1830 and no later than 1848 when the Metternich system finally keeled over and expired.<br /><br />Just on other matters imperial. In your critique of Afro-nationalists you confuse the slave trade, whose success definitely owed much to the collusion of local rulers, with European imperial expansion in the 19th century in Africa, which didn't. A small point perhaps but a crucial one . . . Singapore didn't become independent because it was a tight society and it didn't receive its independence from the British either. A small point but a . . .<br />Peter Rechniewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-9225958263505153002013-02-23T20:19:01.832-05:002013-02-23T20:19:01.832-05:00How do you know all that?
Sounds to me like you ...How do you know all that? <br /><br />Sounds to me like you have a pretty negative view of Poles and their capabilities. Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3Q04XXGGED746/ref=cm_aya_bb_revnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-33544625070254431672013-02-23T19:05:30.535-05:002013-02-23T19:05:30.535-05:00@ JP: "Imagine if the Prussians (and, of cour...@ JP: "Imagine if the Prussians (and, of course, the Russians and Austrians) had never partitioned Poland, and the famous Constitution of 1791 had gone into effect"<br /><br />Except, of course, there would have been no Constitution of 1791 but for the fact that the country was about to be (and partly already was) subject to partitions. <br /><br />The Polish szlachta had 700 years and counting to end feudalism in Poland - they did not. The very little that was done in 1791 was only done because the country's archaic structure was made laughably weak by the neighboring powers. <br /><br />In fact, as you know, it was the Prussians (and later the Czar) that freed the Polish serfs. <br /><br />"decades later for their own ends of playing Polish peasants against Polish landlords."<br /><br />Sure - except, who put the country in that position in the first place? Was there something stopping the szlachta AFTER the partitions (but before the Russians and Prussians "treacherously" freed them) from freeing the serfs??? What was it??? <br /><br />"Imagine Poland not missing the Industrial Revolution. In short, imagine what Poland would have been like."<br /><br />It is no necessary to imagine anything. I can tell you exactly what Poland would have been like had the partitions not occurred - it would have been a backward feudal society run by a few with little to show for industrialization. The same broken system just rolling forward another 100 years. That's it. <br /><br />This kind of pining reminds of Afro-nationalists who complain that the Europeans looted their continent. They conveniently forget that it was their local chieftains that fully colluded with that project. Moreover, what would Africa be like now? Same as it was in 1400 except maybe a few more would be driving imported Mercedeses.<br /><br />In order to resist, you have to have cojones and a tight society. That is why the Japanese were able to do what they did. That is why Singapore was able to rid itself of the British. Etc. But for THAT you have to have self-respect. Self-respect starts by not blaming others for your miseries. If someone spits on you, beat the crap out of him and he won't do it again. But it's much easier to complain.<br /><br />Meir Shalitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-13068690729545617272013-02-23T16:45:58.260-05:002013-02-23T16:45:58.260-05:00"Why you jumped to blacks in South Africa I a..."Why you jumped to blacks in South Africa I am not sure."<br /><br />Didn't you bring blacks into this? vide:<br /><br />"What difference will a 1000 more black graduates from Ivy League institutions make to the prospects of 98% of African Americans?"<br /><br /><br />As for this:<br /><br />"There is nothing in our genes that carries our identity. If you had said in our language, culture and upbringing that would have been different."<br /><br />Have you expanded beyond vinyl into genetics? How do you know what is and what is not in our genes so as to be able to call it "nonsense"?<br /><br />Meir Shalta<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-45815390565224725052013-02-22T15:23:05.687-05:002013-02-22T15:23:05.687-05:00FWIW, I'm posting about the religious side of ...FWIW, I'm posting about the religious side of pc at the other blog. <br /><br />Hanna would love to read your comments.<br /><br />Peter you can tell me what i got wrong.<br /><br />Sue are you still around.<br /><br />Jan you can recommend a book review on the topic ... <br /><br />here is the link:<br /><br />http://save-send-delete.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-flying-spaghetti-monster-cutesy-new.htmlD Goskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-48702283675899151842013-02-22T14:55:30.389-05:002013-02-22T14:55:30.389-05:00No, the left did not invent identity politics, but...No, the left did not invent identity politics, but they made it into a fine art, notably in American politics. <br /><br />Not only Africa would have been better off without colonial powers ruling it. Imagine if the Prussians (and, of course, the Russians and Austrians) had never partitioned Poland, and the famous Constitution of 1791 had gone into effect. Imagine Poland's peasants emancipated right then and there, and not by the partitioning powers decades later for their own ends of playing Polish peasants against Polish landlords. Imagine Poland not missing the Industrial Revolution. In short, imagine what Poland would have been like. Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3Q04XXGGED746/ref=cm_aya_bb_revnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-61042318261506418202013-02-22T07:43:16.453-05:002013-02-22T07:43:16.453-05:00The point I tried to make was that they (ie the Fr...The point I tried to make was that they (ie the Frankfurt School) did not as you put it "deliver the ideological weapons". That was done by post-modernism which developed a completely different critique and therefore created a different intellectual framework.<br /><br />If I were you, I wouldn't "rest my case" just yet but actually do some work so you have a better grasp of what constitutes left-wing politics, as based on your posts on this blog, it is clear that you don't really know much about it save that there is communism and identity politics which concerns itself with the interests of minorities at the expense of "regular people".Peter Rechniewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-30866612200906427452013-02-22T07:31:44.312-05:002013-02-22T07:31:44.312-05:00JP you are correct that Gramsci was very influenti... JP you are correct that Gramsci was very influential but he wasn't part of the Frankfurt School. Most critical thinkers from the Enlightenment on were hostile to religion though not all of them were on the left. Hegel was not a left thinker, in fact he ended up very conservative but he was not supportive of religion except in as much as it supported the State.<br /><br />Gramsci's most influential concept was that of 'hegemony' and I have to say much of what he said about that concept still strikes me as correct especially when applied to the influence of the media.Peter Rechniewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-33562181470221569282013-02-22T07:23:04.619-05:002013-02-22T07:23:04.619-05:00"The left did not invent identity politics - ..."The left did not invent identity politics - our identity is in our genes". The first part is right, the second part is nonsense. There is nothing in our genes that carries our identity. If you had said in our language, culture and upbringing that would have been different. <br /><br />Why you jumped to blacks in South Africa I am not sure. Please cite something to support your contention that SA blacks were better off under apartheid than now. I'd be very interested to see them. <br /><br />"Certainly post-colonial Africa, one can argue, would have been better of if it had remained part of various Euro empires." And it would have been better off if the European empires had not gone there in the first place.Peter Rechniewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-44293256299601827022013-02-21T16:34:59.533-05:002013-02-21T16:34:59.533-05:00"Certainly the Soviet Union, which it seems t..."Certainly the Soviet Union, which it seems they tried to pretend they did not like . . ." Please cite some evidence that they (who amongst them precisely? all of them?) only pretended they did not like the Soviet Union?<br /><br />Certainly the Soviet Union did target minorities in the US and most unsuccessfully which is why the American Communist Party remained small. You are confusing identity politics with a class-based political stance that might attract members of a minority in numbers. <br /><br />The Soviet Union was not interested in The Black Panthers except to try and infiltrate them precisely because the BP's were not interested in aligning themselves with Moscow loyalists like the American CP. Peter Rechniewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-58818831288513393312013-02-21T15:56:05.046-05:002013-02-21T15:56:05.046-05:00"What difference will a 1000 more black gradu..."What difference will a 1000 more black graduates from Ivy League institutions make to the prospects of 98% of African Americans?"<br /><br />This isn't about that. It may be that blacks in SA are worse off economically now than under apartheid but at least they know that the people on top are "their" people - even if their people are corrupt and indolent. Why do you think Yassir Arafat had such support for so long. <br /><br />Certainly post-colonial Africa, one can argue, would have been better of if it had remained part of various Euro empires. <br /><br />For that matter Poland was probably better off under Prussian administration than independent - and yet economics were not enough.<br /><br />The left did not invent identity politics - our identity is in our genes - it is not a social creation. People tend to be clannish - diversity is not about diversity, it's about getting the most our guys in there that we can<br /><br />Meir Shalta<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-33482405788178631232013-02-21T08:48:29.488-05:002013-02-21T08:48:29.488-05:00I think that Peter Rechniewski presented an excell...I think that Peter Rechniewski presented an excellent analysis of the Frankfort School, and its .<br /><br />One of the thinkers not mentioned is Antonio Gramsci. I wonder to what extent the secularist attack on religion in Poland, as exemplified by the "War of the Crosses", is at least partly inspired by Gramsci's teaching that abandonment of religion is one of the paths of progress in a society.Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramscinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-83348914495290118012013-02-21T04:13:16.801-05:002013-02-21T04:13:16.801-05:00How does what Peter said contradict Hanna's ab...How does what Peter said contradict Hanna's abbreviated version? It seems to have been direct descendant followers of the Frankfurt School who saw the value of radicalized minorities. Certainly the Soviet Union, which it seems they tried to pretend they did not like, did an excellent job itself of targeting minorities everywhere, not the least in the US where Blacks made up a disproportionate share of US Communist organizations. <br />MB<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-37287333039111590132013-02-21T00:28:00.873-05:002013-02-21T00:28:00.873-05:00On-I made it seem that the FF school was a kind of...On-I made it seem that the FF school was a kind of conspiracy controlling the whole process.you are absolutely right-wingers they were not. The just, in my eyes, delivered the ideological weapons and the time was ripe anyway. Still- with regards to left-wing politics I rest my case: they are caring about minorities more than about regular people.Hannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-79100108469731123392013-02-21T00:26:48.247-05:002013-02-21T00:26:48.247-05:00On-I made it seem that the FF school was a kind of...On-I made it seem that the FF school was a kind of conspiracy controlling the whole process.you are absolutely right-wingers they were not. The just, in my eyes, delivered the ideological weapons and the time was ripe anyway. Still- with regards to left-wing politics I rest my case: they are caring about minorities more than about regular people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com