tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post5424493075082507237..comments2024-03-11T08:31:04.022-04:00Comments on Bieganski the Blog: Bieganski in the New Age Hot Tub: "The Crooked Mirror: A Memoir of Polish-Jewish Reconciliation" by Louise Steinman. Book Review. D Goskahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-43182816431684294162014-03-22T04:28:56.855-04:002014-03-22T04:28:56.855-04:00"Also, while Poland's fate was certainly ..."Also, while Poland's fate was certainly bad, the fate of Europe's Jews was more extreme."<br /><br />I find the use of this argument incredibly harmful. We know the Shoah, as a specific attempt to exterminate Europe's Jews (and eventually all Jews on Earth). But to say that the Nazis plans for Poles and other victims was 'less extreme' is, in my very honest opinion, misleading. To say that one was more extreme than the other is to cheapen or lessen the experience of other oppressed populations under the Nazis.<br /><br />To defy this DOES NOT mean one ignores the Shoah, or cheapens THAT, as well. It simply must recast the understanding of the Holocaust as a genocide of various strengths and speeds, but a total genocide against all the Nazis deemed to be untermensch. <br /><br />BChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036437834332737564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-78583223377503665612014-03-13T15:08:54.354-04:002014-03-13T15:08:54.354-04:00The item is a few decades old, and, yes, it is lon...The item is a few decades old, and, yes, it is long out of print. I had gotten it via interlibrary loan from a library in Connecticut. You may look it up in WorldCat and see if you can borrow it, and perhaps even scan it in and post it on the Internet.<br />Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3Q04XXGGED746/ref=cm_aya_bb_revnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-54591697472554817802014-03-13T11:31:41.065-04:002014-03-13T11:31:41.065-04:00Looks like the pamphlet is out of print. Maybe I c...Looks like the pamphlet is out of print. Maybe I can get hold of it in my nearest Polish library. Unless anyone knows where I can get hold of a copy? Or, indeed, any other critiques of the TV series?<br /><br />Apologies to Danusha Goska for my appearing to hijack what started out as a discussion about Louise Steinman's book, but perhaps my excuse can be that my comments could be connected in the sense of being on the general theme of Christian/Jewish relations in Poland?<br /><br />As for the TV series, it's clearly a fact that many people have never been interested in reading an academic book in their lives - and I don't mean to be in any way patronising when I say this - but because of that, any knowledge of history they may have gleaned has been through films and television. Therefore, as Jan Peczkis observed, tens of millions of viewers were exposed to this series. It may even have been more influential in forming people's opinions on the subject of the Holocaust than Claude Lanzmann's 'Shoah'.Michal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-23324520433947123472014-03-12T20:58:30.098-04:002014-03-12T20:58:30.098-04:00Remember, as I had indicated earlier, that Gorson ...Remember, as I had indicated earlier, that Gorson wrote nearly all the text. For that reason, the credibility or otherwise of Grabowski is irrelevant. Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3Q04XXGGED746/ref=cm_aya_bb_revnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-80019736484236434612014-03-12T17:36:37.202-04:002014-03-12T17:36:37.202-04:00Good point about Gorson working with Grabowski. I ...Good point about Gorson working with Grabowski. I won't get into what views Grabowski may or may not have had for the simple reason that I still don't know enough about him. What does seem to somewhat compromise his credibility relating to his comments about Poland during WWII is not so much whether he was or was not anti-Semitic, but by the fact that he was an American, born in the US. Did he know about conditions in Poland during the war? If so, how? Perhaps I am doing him a grave injustice here and perhaps he did, indeed, serve with the Polish army. I'd be interested to find out. <br /><br />Gorson, on the other hand, as an Auschwitz survivor, clearly had first-hand knowledge of Poland. He seemed to be one brave individual. I see he came to the defense of Maximilian Kolbe when it was quite an unpopular thing to do. Michal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-37325517206242291192014-03-12T11:14:28.360-04:002014-03-12T11:14:28.360-04:00Do you really think that a Polish Jew, “Ziggy” Gor...Do you really think that a Polish Jew, “Ziggy” Gorson, would agree to write a booklet with an anti-Semite? I rather doubt it. Notice also that Grabowski is the nominal author: Polish Jew “Ziggy” Gorson is the main author. <br /><br />I urge you to be cautious what you find on the Internet, because anyone can post anything they want on it. In addition, as you doubtless know, the charge of anti-Semitism is a standard tactic used to de-legitimize views that don’t fit the standard “party” line. Furthermore, we should not let others tell us what to think. <br /><br />You need not search around to find this specific item. The item is on Amazon. Just click on my name in this specific posting. <br /><br />Finally, the issue at hand is not Grabowski. It is the HOLOCAUST series, and how it inculcated anti-Polish views in tens of millions of unsuspecting American viewers. <br />Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/review/R13JOFXE6BI2IM/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00072KCQ8&linkCode&nodeID&tagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-34164879982369415712014-03-12T08:03:15.970-04:002014-03-12T08:03:15.970-04:00My mistake. I should looking for Sigmund Gorson, n...My mistake. I should looking for Sigmund Gorson, not Gerson.Michal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-61322855464545347382014-03-12T06:36:03.297-04:002014-03-12T06:36:03.297-04:00Good grief! I've just googled Chester Grabowsk...Good grief! I've just googled Chester Grabowski and discovered he was accused of being an anti-Semite. Just shows how naive I am about American Polonia. In fact, I'm now reading your article on him, Dr Goska.<br /><br />I can't find any info on Sigmund Gerson, though...Michal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-68661061206485368192014-03-12T06:14:18.198-04:002014-03-12T06:14:18.198-04:00Thanks for the reply, Jan. Good to know there were...Thanks for the reply, Jan. Good to know there were objections and protests at the time. Thank goodness for people like Chester Grabowski and Sigmund Gorson.<br /><br />As I said, I didn't see the series when it first came out - I generally didn't watch much TV in those days and I avoided committing to any long series - but I'm pretty sure it was shown over here in the UK. I don't know if my parents watched it. If they had, they would have been appalled, both having been in the Polish army; my dad in the September Campaign, then France and Italy and my mother through the Middle East and Italy with the Anders Army. In fact, my father, as a military historian, would have undoubtedly said straightaway that the Polish Army Oath would have made it a crime for a Polish soldier to harm (let alone fire on) a fellow Polish citizen. (Which is, of course, why there was such outrage during the ugly episodes of martial law in Poland back in 1981).<br /><br />Perhaps I wasn't as interested as I might have been in things Polish back in those days - and it's good to know there have been people out there who have been fighting the good fight. <br /><br />You may have your differences with Danusha Goska, but the way I see it, you're both on the same side and doing your best to combat prejudice and misinformation. Neither of you are trying to whitewash any Polish wrongdoing (when it is shown to be beyond doubt) and are treading a very difficult path.<br /><br />As for how American Polonia organizes itself, that's not something I can really comment on. All I know is that over on this side of the pond, there's not a great deal of English-language information on the kind of issues you are dealing with. <br /><br />Best wishes to all Polish Americans from MichalMichal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-61299443485283592552014-03-11T22:06:46.831-04:002014-03-11T22:06:46.831-04:00Jan Peczkis, I must say, I take much exception to ...Jan Peczkis, I must say, I take much exception to your post, above. <br /><br />"The media is much more sympathetic to Jewish suffering than Polish suffering." <br /><br />This is demonstrably false. "The media" didn't care much about the Holocaust while it was happening. <br /><br />Jewish people learned to effectively organize to get their story told. They also raised funds and filmmakers and storytellers arose from the Jewish community and fellow Jews supported them financially and culturally. <br /><br />Polonia does not support her artists and writers. Polonia does not organize and does not strategize. And Polonia pays the price. <br /><br />Also, while Poland's fate was certainly bad, the fate of Europe's Jews was more extreme. <br /><br />D Goskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-33685403165148561122014-03-11T22:00:31.008-04:002014-03-11T22:00:31.008-04:00To answer Michal's question, I did watch the 1...To answer Michal's question, I did watch the 1978 HOLOCAUST series myself, and was immediately struck by its exclusivist focus on Jewish suffering and its rather vulgar Polonophobia. I wrote a review of it, and also wrote a review of a rebuttal piece written by a Polish Jew. To see this latter review, please click on my name in this specific posting. <br /><br />To answer Michal's other question--yes, there was a furor among Polish-Americans about it. Polish-American organizations spoke out against it, but the media largely ignored them. This shows that more Polish involvement is, by itself, not the answer, so long as the media is much more sympathetic towards Jewish suffering than Polish suffering. <br /><br />Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/review/R13JOFXE6BI2IM/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00072KCQ8&linkCode&nodeID&tagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-72479803908434535872014-03-11T19:25:01.233-04:002014-03-11T19:25:01.233-04:00Then again, considering Poland was still in the gr...Then again, considering Poland was still in the grip of the communist authorities back then, there would probably not have been an official protest from the government for a couple of reasons: the first being that no American series would have been shown in Poland anyway, and the second that even if someone had seen it, it would have suited the communists to portray the Polish army (or resistance) as Nazi collaborators. But there must have been an outcry at the time in American Polonia, surely?<br /><br />Not sure whether to continue watching this now - can it get any worse?Michal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-36939134218838197092014-03-11T18:57:31.677-04:002014-03-11T18:57:31.677-04:00Actually, this may not exactly be the right time o...Actually, this may not exactly be the right time or place, but can I ask Jan Peczkis if he ever reviewed the 1978 TV mini-series 'Holocaust'? I've been catching up on various films which I missed the first time around for one reason or another and I'm halfway through this. So far, the acting's been good, the main characters fairly believable, but then - about halfway through - I was staggered to discover that soldiers in Polish uniform were shown keeping a Jewish crowd in order, and, much worse, actually executing Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto by firing squad! Unbelievable! <br /><br />Was there a furore about this back in '78 in the States? I certainly don't remember hearing about it. No wonder there is anti-Polish feeling when TV can get away with something like this...Michal Karskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14485336940590433312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-35922122681515832132014-03-08T08:27:23.723-05:002014-03-08T08:27:23.723-05:00JP I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on ...JP I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. D Goskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-73259079995010950312014-03-07T22:33:32.148-05:002014-03-07T22:33:32.148-05:00We need, I think, to distinguish between what auth...We need, I think, to distinguish between what author Louise Steinman writes, and what reviewers say. Nowhere does Steinman say anything remotely like Poles having a "Nazi past". That is solely the mental invention of one reviewer (out of 35 reviewers so far). <br /><br />The popularity of this book owes less to Polish inaction than to the dominant role of the Holocaust in American culture, media, and education. <br /><br />I think that our disagreement stems from what we emphasize. While certainly Steinman's book has a lot of schlock, it also has a refreshing candor, about popular Jewish misconceptions about Poles and Poland, that is rarely broached by Jewish authors. I elaborate on this in mine own review, which can be read by clicking on my name in this specific posting. I tend to appreciate books that, schlock notwithstanding, show a measure of fairness and objectivity relative to Poles and Poland. I also appreciate Steinman's humility as she confronts and rejects many of her prior Polonophobic prejudices. This, too, is seldom seen in books of this nature. Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/review/RPS5QTJMBRL6Q/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00CQZ5M4G&linkCode&nodeID&tagnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-17005761413974345712014-03-07T06:30:51.312-05:002014-03-07T06:30:51.312-05:00Jan Peczkis you and I do often disagree.
On this ...Jan Peczkis you and I do often disagree.<br /><br />On this one we disagree one hundred percent. Forgive me for being so blunt but I think you are totally wrong on this one. <br /><br />JP please have a look at the reviews of this book on Amazon. You've got people saying that this book shows that Poland cannot come to terms with "its Nazi past" and people insisting that businesses in Poland commonly feature images of Jews with coins in order to increase business ... <br /><br />I can think of plenty of Jews who would be offended by this book as well. The trivial treatment of her visit to Treblinka, Cheryl, her shallowness, her lack of language, her belief that she need not check facts. <br /><br />that this book has received so much positive attention is a very bad indicator of how totally Polonia has renounced its own responsibility to tell the Polish story. D Goskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353495585591945881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8471082069031980581.post-27840875228671067462014-03-06T22:26:25.717-05:002014-03-06T22:26:25.717-05:00I see your points. However, I think that this book...I see your points. However, I think that this book is a heck of a lot better than a lot of Jewish-authored books on Poland. Mr. Jan Peczkishttp://www.amazon.com/review/RPS5QTJMBRL6Q/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00CQZ5M4G&linkCode&nodeID&tagnoreply@blogger.com